12 years of UV! But we obviously need a change.

[nightwolf714]

...from Entropy's Grenades and Baking Soda Emporium! (Bring your friends! Bring your children!). ...
Of course, we could just go completely libertine and let people do whatever they want, but I don't think Gaeva will agree to that in a million years. Just think of the chaos! Think of the children!

If children are buying grenades, we definitely have to think about them!

[Luxon Cobrat]

If children are buying grenades, we definitely have to
think about them!

Think of the sales!

[Roose Hurro]

A few notes for clarification:

My rules comment was made as a general preference, not a specific item on the to-do list. I haven't looked at the UV rules in a long time, so any changes that have been made in the last three years or so may well have already taken care of this.

My stance on overall effect vs. raw power is based on the difficulties of defining what does and does not qualify as "power" as well as the idea that different players and characters have different goals -- and both of those are rooted in the variety of options for character conflict. Physical threat is certainly one form of multi-character conflict, but it isn't the only one; consider mind games, battles of will, social reform, etc. Furthermore, conflict is often very much internal rather than or in addition to external/multi-character, and to limit characters to a specific level of a specific definition of "power" is to throw out an entire subset of potential story conflicts. As for power, well. Influence is power, in the right context, be it widespread or not -- just as brains or mental fortitude or bravery or yes, magic and physical strength can be. Why the insistence that only the latter two matter?

I don't have any particular objection to joining threads when the system is working, for the record. Hell, I used to mod the things way back in the day, and I quite enjoyed it. That said, I must reiterate that at the time there was an IC reason for the RP, that effort was made to keep things moving, and that acceptance was usually granted within the first page (though the threads might well continue to their natural end after acceptance, if the player desired it). Pretty much all of that has been lost since, and I think they all played a valuable role in the original success.

The reason I suggested watchers was indeed because many people are not comfortable approaching authority figures with a complaint. It's one of the unofficial roles I play during my day job, actually; the base level employees will grumble to me about things, but most of them wouldn't dream of taking it to The Powers That Be. Therefore, if I hear about or see something that looks like it could cause trouble down the road, I'll mention it to them myself as something to be aware of. I assume it's been valuable, given that they drag me all over the store asking for my observations now. (Not even kidding. I was pulled off my own workcenter and stuffed into a different one for a full two months not that long ago, with little more than a "This team is brokenish. Find out why? Kthxbai!")

I am uninclined to support public polling on anything administrative. I've seen it done, and I've seen it blow up far more often than not. People, as it turns out, are not all that good at differentiating what seems like a good idea for them and what would a good idea for everyone.

-------

The problem with "stick to what you start with" is that there are so many things you have to start with first. The heavily implied requirement, when filling out a profile, is that you cannot apply with merely a wombat who got lost digging through bad earth. You instead really ought to have a seven-year-old (young adult) wombat wearing an open-front collared black vest whose pack contains a pickaxe, rope, matches, a torch, and a dagger; who is practical and down-to-earth with a tendency toward sarcasm and a disdain for shoddy architecture and a fear of ducks; who can dig tunnels without really needing to think about the digging unless it's a particularly tricky site but does get quite worn out as you might expect given the physical labor involved, and can sense when magic and gods are around because her claws itch a bit and things usually get weird except it's not very specific; who is limited because, um.. idk, wombat? maybe no one knows what those are, that sounds good, and she isn't going to kill anybody if she can help it because you just don't do that obviously, oh! and bad earth is a thing, right, that throws off her mojo; who has a family but can't get home now so they probably are going to assume she's dead and sell her stuff, and she learned how to dig tunnels at a perfectly respectable wombat school but got mixed up with someone's magicked fossil.

That particular character is in no way, shape, or form mine, but I did borrow her rather specifically. Digger was introduced to the world in a five-page short comic, just a wombat caught in bad earth; she ended up starring in a 759-page epic that was almost entirely thought up on the fly, and it is made of so much more awesome than it ever could have been had the author known what she wanted to happen or what her characters were like beforehand.

Now, technically, yes, you can grow from the snippet into the run-on sentence. But the snippet would never be accepted at UV, and would thus never have the chance to actually do that particular growing. My issue with UV profiles as they stand (and I fully accept that this is a personal bias, and likely never to be viable here again) is that it is virtually impossible to start with an idea, a hook, and just see where it takes you. A well-rounded character becomes rounded by play; rounding beforehand is a forced shortcut past a long-term natural progression. It can be done. But there's no fun in it (for me), and I'll lose interest in the character pretty quickly. Smoke was the only character of mine that ever lasted, for precisely this reason.

I second all this.

Also, on the whole "Edge" thing... I've always enjoyed Tavern threads, and this reboot could allow the Edge to have a tavern, either "just there" for the taking, or perhaps having a "plot" in which characters decide and then go about building it. Perhaps I could solve my Tiffin problem by having him become the "innkeeper"... who knows? I just think it would add some variety to the Edge. Heh. It could even be built near Khee's Garden, perhaps even built around Tiffin's tree. A place where those who arrive at the Edge can relax in, if they arrive close enough to its location. Yes, with this reboot, Deep Forest is ripe for some new areas, new territories to expand it with. Perhaps... perhaps even have Deep Forest "melded" with bits of the worlds its existence may have touched. I remember a character... Grey, I think his name was. A "closet monster" or "monster under the bed" whose realm touched Deep Forest. Perhaps this idea of permanent "portals" for NPCs to "come out of" could be incorporated into Deep Forest's revampment. All I know is, The Edge was my favorite haunt here, and it would be nice to not only mod The Edge a bit, but to perhaps create more "edges" for PCs to arrive at. Or at least more than just: "This is the Wasteland, this is The Forest, X marks The Edge, have at it." Or some such. Something to "turn up the wick," so to speak. Don't know if that would help with joining threads, but I can't imagine it would hurt too much, either. Even though The Edge was not strictly the area where new characters HAD to arrive. Far as I remember.

Funny you should mention this. I'm designing some new characters for UV, and I've got a plan for two of them to start up a combination coffee shop / machine shop together once they get settled in. I see no reason that they couldn't move that business to the Edge to hop up newcomers on caffeine, fix their weapons, and send them on their merry way (in addition to
continuing to serve the rest of the Forest, of course). And the best part? These two are supposed to be semi-retired, polyverse-travelling adventuring types anyway (about Tier 3 each, maybe Tier 2 as a pair if they're having a really good day), so they'd be doubling as the Forest's first line of defense! Let me give this some more thought...

I support this endeavor. If there's going to be an Edge, I like the idea of there being a natural gathering place there. It does give people a reason to meet each other there.
I think the Edge is a good place to develop a character through RP, anyway, if you can get activity. Maybe we could go about it in the opposite way of what we have been. Instead of dropping a completed character at the edge and playing it until it gets accepted, people could bring newly-conceptualized characters in there and play them until they know enough to finish filling out the profile. This seems like a useful purpose.
Though, I think people can do that anyway, but it isn't advertised, and I think you still have to wait to get accepted after you've finished the profile.

Yes, the underlined, I think, at least, formed the whole purpose of The Edge's existance. A place to develop characters. Shame so many times, people would come and leave before they'd been accepted. Also a shame when "acceptance" ended their joining thread... ended their character's development. At least in relation to the joining thread's storyline. Would be nice if we could find some way to encourage those who start to actually finish what they started. But then, in all my experience with RP, most stories tend to end in one way or another, unfinished. Crying shame, that. Especially when a thread (joining or otherwise) has become "epic" fun. Or just Epic, given some of the... heh... interesting results we've had in the past.

As for all the simply bolded stuff, again, yes... boils down to getting activity and completing any uncompleted character, before the new "member"...DISmembers him or herself. Really, we don't want that kind of "bloodshed" here, right?

If children are buying grenades, we definitely have to
think about them!

Think of the sales!

Indeed. Someone has to pay for those grenades, and it ain't the kids who hold the pursestrings!

[Lanadyr]

What follows is a big idea that I would like some feedback on:

I recommend that each IC subforum include, in their respective “Announcements” sections, a thread containing a summary of subforum-specific, character-managed features that can be implemented into that subforum’s IC threads. Let’s call it the “Attractions” thread, unless someone has a better name.

The easiest way to explain this is by way of example:

As I’ve mentioned previously in this thread, I have an idea for a shop that can appear at the Edge. So, after the two characters that are running this shop are accepted, I’d like to write up a description of their establishment and post it into the Attractions thread of the Edge.

(Side note: It’s a coffee shop AND a mechanic AND it’s at the Edge AND it will serve as a part of the Forest’s defenses, so, if I don’t call this shop The Filter, I’m never going to be able to live with myself.)

After I post this shop into the Attractions thread, any players at the Edge who are so inclined can include The Filter as a part of their threads at the Edge. Characters can appear at the front door of the shop during the IC entrance, they can walk to the shop while discussing their newfound home with another character, whatever.

And here’s what’s going to stop the Attractions threads from becoming cluttered with every little idea every player has: whenever The Filter makes an appearance, I have to roleplay The Filter and the characters associated with it in that thread. Depending on how many characters want a cup of coffee, that could be a huge commitment on my part. And if I neglect The Filter and threads are brought to a screeching halt because of that negligence, then the shop should be removed from the Attractions thread so it doesn’t trip anyone else up.

I think this idea scales pretty well to any character-managed feature of the Deep Forest. Want to start a weapons shop? A parkour group? A “Quadrupeds Against Jars, Doors, and Keyboards” support group? A book club? A LARP group where everyone pretends to be humans with office jobs? A neighborhood watch? An artisanal cheese shop? A secret society? Go for it! But if a character creates something, then it ceases to exist if the character refuses to support it after creation.

Obviously, this idea has some mechanics that need to be worked out (how long do you wait before declaring a character-managed feature “dead”, for one), but this idea would allow not only for the implementation of character-run infrastructure in the Deep Forest, but also an almost-automated method to get rid of it once it’s run its course.

[nightwolf714]

That's a great shop name. XD

I think it sounds like an interesting idea (in regards to the attractions idea), though as the site grows I can see that being very difficult to keep up with. I don't think that means we need to axe the idea, just that it would take a lot of thought to make it work both now and in the future.

[Lanadyr]

...though as the site grows I can see that being very difficult to keep up with.

I would consider that a great problem to have.

[Keltres]

While it would be nice to have such sublocations to act as a setting for joining or plot threads, it feels unwise to encourage people to get involved in quite so many threads, simply because the more threads one player is involved in, the more threads are brought to a halt if they stop posting, and we should accept that in the context of an internet RP board, people quite frequently vanish unexpectedly. A similar problem applies to relaxing the limits on the number of threads a character can be in too far, but while it's sometimes possible to continue a thread minus one character, it's a lot harder if they take the coffee shop the thread takes place in with them. For this reason, I'd rather have neutral attractions which could be used as settings but didn't require a single player to participate every time they were used, or at least encourage attractions to have an 'owner is busy' setting where, for example, the main owners are out and the Filter is being watched over by their NPC assistant.

The Edge as a place to develop characters seems a good way of looking at it, and is actually one of the things I feel the joining threads are good for, precisely because of the lack of a plot influencing the character's actions. With the only plot being the ones the characters bring with them, the focus is on the characters themselves, and this is good for development, espescially where new characters are concerned.

On the subject of character profiles, one detail I'd like to see added is an 'important questions' section, not so much as a category to be filled in on the profile, but more as a list of things you should consider when making a character. Particularly important would be questions related to conflict between characters such as "What keeps your character from dominating over a weaker one?", or "how will your character handle a serious difference of opinion?". Basically, a review of the more problematic situations your character might find themselves in, and whether they could cope with them in a manner acceptable in an RP setting(therefore, no disintegration, being tied up and left for the police, or other serious inconvenience).

[Lanadyr]

While it would be nice to have such sublocations to act as a setting for joining or plot threads, it feels unwise to encourage people to get involved in quite so many threads, simply because the more threads one player is involved in, the more threads are brought to a halt if they stop posting, and we should accept that in the context of an internet RP board, people quite frequently vanish unexpectedly. A similar problem applies to relaxing the limits on the number of threads a character can be in too far, but while it's sometimes possible to continue a thread minus one character, it's a lot harder if they take the coffee shop the thread takes place in with them. For this reason, I'd rather have neutral attractions which could be used as settings but didn't require a single player to participate every time they were used, or at least encourage attractions to have an 'owner is busy' setting where, for example, the main owners are out and the Filter is being watched over by their NPC assistant.

I agree that neutral attractions, not managed by any player characters, would also be nice to have. But some players (example: me) might want to run their own attractions (example: The Filter). Attractions threads would be a mechanism to clearly let other players know that these character-managed attractions have the proverbial welcome mat out.

It is absolutely true that making a character-managed attraction (such as a shop) something the character actually has to manage assumes that the character’s player is up to the challenge of keeping up with the demand on that attraction. However, that’s not a bug, that’s a feature. If the player is not up to the challenge, then the feature disappears, simple as that. If that “disappearing” mechanism isn’t in place, then Attractions threads could very well become cluttered with dozens of defunct shops, transforming into veritable ghost towns that would only serve to confuse, overwhelm, and frustrate players both new and old.

However, the point is well-taken that making a character-managed attraction load-bearing for any given thread is a bad idea because, well, things happen. If a half-dozen characters decide all at once “Hey, let’s go to The Filter for a round of drinks” and I’m not around for a month because I’ve suddenly got to fend off the latest invasion of phantom slugs from the 14th dimension (or whatever), a good chunk of UV suddenly grinds to a halt, especially if there are limits in place as to how many threads a character can be active in at once.

Therefore, as an alternative to the proposed ‘owner is busy’ setting (which might allow defunct attractions to shamble on as lifeless zombies for far too long), I would counter-propose that each character-managed attraction include a stock explanation for what happens when it isn’t being managed in a timely fashion.

For The Filter, at least, the explanation would be simple enough, because the two operators of the shop would (at least in my mind) be on the short list of characters that would need to be speed-dialed whenever certain types of trouble arise in the Deep Forest. If I don’t respond to threads with The Filter in them in a timely fashion (and if I’ve been PM’d to make sure that I know about The Filter’s appearance in the first place, and if I’ve not otherwise explained an extended absence in the Absence subforum), it can be assumed that my characters had to run off to address some off-screen crisis, and otherwise stranded characters could then simply leave The Filter, consequence-free and guilt-free, and go on with the rest of their lives, thereby continuing their respective threads.

And if I let this happen too much, The Filter gets bulldozed, because obviously my characters would have proven themselves far too critical in other capacities to be running a shop.

[nightwolf714]

Suggestion about the attractions idea.

I get Keltres' concern and think it's quite valid. That said, Lanadyr, you also make a point that some people would love to put in that effort. So along with the suggestions you've made, Landyr, I propose one other one.

Know how you have to play characters and keep them active for so long before getting a new character? What if (assuming the attraction idea is eventually approved by our overlord unicorn) we make it so that you get to pick either a new character or attraction. And you can't pick attraction twice in a row. That way only players who have proven that they won't just up and leave get allowed to start up an attraction.

[Lanadyr]

A fantastic idea, Nightwolf, but after giving the idea of Attractions threads some more thought, it suddenly occurred to me that I could patch together an Edge-based shop that could be used to welcome new characters, right now, using existing mechanics:

1. Get both characters who are going to run The Filter accepted.

2. Put up an HVR thread describing these two characters building The Filter, including a description of the shop and an OOC invitation for other players to use the shop in their own threads.

3. PM every player with a character at the Edge (as there would be no reason to suspect that players, especially new ones, would automatically know about The Filter) to let them know that this resource is available to them in their own joining threads, should they wish to edit their initial posts or add a second post to make use of it.

In this context, the presence of Attractions threads could primarily be seen as a way to replace Step 3 above with a single list of multiple such character-managed resources for all players to easily review. This would have definite advantages, but only if a critical mass of players wanted to make use of it.

[forgerofsouls]

Ok, after much reading I will decide to keep my opinions to myself. And, its long overdue, but I'm sorry for the delay at the edge, I have been unable to log onto UV for several months now due to unknown stupidity on Firefox's part. But as you can see, that has largely been fixed...I hope.

[Norvilion]

I'm not so sure about the "PM every player" part, seems like if there were enough people on either side it could quickly become frustrating to both sender and receiver. Why not do something similar to Blackback's old shop where there was a single thread, perhaps stickied if it becomes officially recognized, where the shop's description is kept in first post and people can continue from there. The main thread would be like the shop during a busy time, where characters might bump into each other at the shop itself. You could also post something along the lines of "Shopkeeper attention requested, <link to thread>" if you wanted to minimize chaos in your visit.

If there get to be more than some arbitrary number of shops in an area, say three for sake of argument, they might all be unstickied and indexed into a single attractions thread like was mentioned. that way you still have the attractions available but not cluttering up the stickied area so much.

As an off-the-wall idea we might also consider getting permission for the space an in-character affair as well. This is just me thinking out loud so don't take it too seriously but perhaps there might be a number of characters or NPCs run by mods that act as 'zoning officers'. Want to establish packlands? Sure thing, just scout out the land and agree to help us out a bit if anything threatens the area at large. Building a shop? Well, you'll need building supplies anyways so why not procure a bit extra supply we can use to help newcomers craft basic shelter. Truth be told that's probably a bit much in the red tape department but whatever form it takes it would be cool to see new attractions being built up in-character.

[Roose Hurro]

I'm with Norvilion... was also thinking something similar to Blackback's old shop. I also like the idea of "in-character permission." The IC creation of these "attractions" could form plots all on their own, perhaps not in the "Forest-wide" nature of the past Barbannis gave us, but indeed a more "personal" form, where characters could form relationships, whether of a "business" nature or otherwise. Quite often in the past, it seemed so many characters had something of a "disconnect" when it came to meeting and interacting... like their encounters were accidental. Not always, no, but quite often yes, it seemed. At least from my perspective. Which could be totally me, but then, I'm thinking that may be reason enough to use the idea, or at least think long and hard on the concept and what it could do to "unify" character interaction.

Heh... could be I'm just rambling, too.

But I like the idea.

[Gaeva Winged Unicorn]

Perhaps this idea of permanent "portals" for NPCs to "come out of" could be incorporated into Deep Forest's revampment.

I'm personally not that crazy about this idea. I get the fun part, and the possibilities this opens, but it seems so easy to explode into chaos and lose track of everything.

In the end, it may be best just to simply make it an abilities and personality section and, in the explanation of both, say that we're looking for both pros and cons in those sections. Simplifies it but still attempts to reach the goal desired.

Seems simple enough.

So while I can see using the tiers to say, hey, we're facing really difficult and powerful stuff, I think plots should never really be tier exclusive.

It'll never be a mandatory thing, but it'll be a nice tool for people who find it important and wish for certain characters to play with ^_^ Besides, what I mentioned before with an OOC thread to "promote" your thread and such, that would be the perfect spot to point out what you just said, that a character that doesn't meet the asked for requirements would be an asset, not a handicap. Besides, I have a feeling most people would be thinking of a max cap, not a minimum. Like Lanadyr said, just another way to get your RP some specific attention!

My rules comment was made as a general preference, not a specific item on the to-do list. I haven't looked at the UV rules in a long time, so any changes that have been made in the last three years or so may well have already taken care of this.

That explains a lot XD

As for power, well. Influence is power, in the right context, be it widespread or not -- just as brains or mental fortitude or bravery or yes, magic and physical strength can be. Why the insistence that only the latter two matter?

The way I see it the last two can be defined easily and don't require much to figure out what is possible. The first two require certain RPing/writing skills to actually make them as powerful as they claim to be. The ability to throw to a fireball at someone is very clear, the ability to talk someone into buying their used car not so much, because in some cases that would require the other to go OOC just to make it happen. Yeah, someone would need to know their own limits and abilities to write certain characters, but not everybody is that great at assessing themselves, or being aware that they misjudged themselves. It's not exactly uncommon for someone to join with their "awesome" character who in reality is only awesome in the players mind. Experience usually solves this, but not everybody has it when they join, so to me it seems unfair to ask them to add fairly subjective writing skills as abilities. The experienced RPer will/should know this about themselves though.

Also everything Lux said about it.

and that acceptance was usually granted within the first page (though the threads might well continue to their natural end after acceptance, if the player desired it). Pretty much all of that has been lost since, and I think they all played a valuable role in the original success.

I agree. It just wasn't a good way to go about things with so many characters and moderators, but now that we're down to just a few again, it should be ok to accept a character when they're ok, without a RP minimum. Or a shorter minimum anyway.

(Not even kidding. I was pulled off my own workcenter and stuffed into a different one for a full two months not that long ago, with little more than a "This team is brokenish. Find out why? Kthxbai!")

Love it XD

I used to have a couple of people I would ask, or they would come to me with stuff they heard. Till I found out they abused the position to complain about their own grievances, twisting other people's words around. Yay. But yeah, I still believe in the theory. I just made the mistake of trusting just one person at a time for this.

I am uninclined to support public polling on anything administrative. I've seen it done, and I've seen it blow up far more often than not. People, as it turns out, are not all that good at differentiating what seems like a good idea for them and what would a good idea for everyone.

Very good point. Some selectiveness will be required.

The heavily implied requirement, when filling out a profile,

Maybe we need to remove the implied bit. I for one would not complain about shorter profiles that don't require a calculator, conversion tables and post-it summaries to read through >.>

I also think that, rather the edge goes or stays, the character profiles should be kept

Character profiles will never go away, what else will the CT link to??

But. I have been thinking of doing away the Edge as a "place", and instead replace it with a joining forum in general. Why should characters always be stopped at the Edge? Maybe they got a lot more further in after all, that's always been allowed, might as well make it official and more obvious that's an option.

(Personally, I hated the age vs maturity question, as I never could figure out what to put for my characters' ages.)

Because after the so manieth 1000+ year old character joining it drove me crazy not to know what that meant. Are they really old? Do their species just live ridiculously long? Are they immortal? What does a number that high mean?! I tried to give those numbers meaning because they drove me nuts D:

So here's a version I came up with. Thoughts?

Name: What is your character’s name? Any nicknames?

Species: Can be real animals, mythical creatures, or your own created species. Only things not allowed are basic humans.

Age: How old is your character? Are they a baby, child, young adult, adult, elder?

Appearance: What does your character look like? Skin/fur color, eyes, clothing, etc. Please not that, as basic humans are not allowed all humanoid characters must have some non-natural or easily altered features (such as tails, wings, etc).

Personality: How is your character like? Generally happy, grumpy, apathetic? How do they like people? Any fears, loves, obsessions? This area can be developed as you role play (In fact, we really encourage that!) However, we request a bit of basic information so we know what your character is like from the get go.

Traits: (Optional) Does your character have any special traits about them? These can be things like magical abilities, maybe they always wear a red bandana on their head, or only speaks in rhyme for example. This section is for anything noteworthy about your character that’s not mentioned above. When filling out this character, please take care not to accidentally overpower your character. Superman like characters tend to not be as fun to play after a while.

Family: (Optional) Any noteworthy family members that would be helpful for us to know? As an example, a character is snobby family because of an overbearing duke for a father.

Known History: (Optional) This section is for noting anything important from your character’s past. As an example, an untrusting character who was betrayed by a former partner.

How did your character find the Deep Forest: Did your character stumble upon the forest? Where they born in a cave from the Boundary Mountains? Perhaps came out of a hole in the bottom of the River’s Deep?

Misc: Anything that wasn’t covered above?

I like it, especially the traits section, short and simple ^_^ Also that it doesn't just focus on abilities. It would need a mention on disadvantages as well though, those are also traits! I wouldn't make either optional though, or semi-optional like Lux suggests. If there are no traits (really?) or family, they can just say so after all.

The personality section is good overall. But if we're going to require personality flaws, we need to say so specifically. "Please round out the character with good and bad traits, as nobody's perfect."

Ah yes, that too.

Lux, everything you're listing about NPCs isn't from the rules but from the FAQ, the guidelines on how to go about stuff around here.

If these are enforced guidelines, then they are effectively rules. That's how I always saw them, at least.

They're extension of the rules, explaining them. You can't break the guidelines without breaking the rules I think. I'd have to look. Maybe we can make this more obvious by referencing the rule it explains.

do these same guidelines apply to HVR, or is that more of an open game where anyone can run a side plot (that doesn't affect the main RP area) at will without requesting plot characters? (If it isn't, I think it should be.)

Oh. They don't. Not all. Hmm, that doesn't seem to have ever come up in the last 12 years... Maybe it's time >.>

Unless you're saying a person just has to request to use plot characters in general, not request each specific plot character? )

Yup, just in general, I am not interested in the specifics, I just need to know why Mr. Smith there just popped into existence out of nowhere. I can change the wording for that as well then.

Maybe the word "familiars" should be changed to "followers," then? And we (you) should probably decide how big of an army someone should be allowed to have, because I'm pretty sure we don't want someone walking in with a million troops. Or a few thousand, even. Maybe some "indefinite small number" would be okay. Enough that a character would always be able to call more out of their reserves to replace casualties, but not enough that they could bring a huge number into any given scene at once. And there's also a question of just how strong any individual troop can be, because with numbers, that will pile up.

Followers sounds nice, why not ^_^

And an army that huge wouldn't be accepted anyway, so the joining process would take care of limits and/or numbers ^_^ A mention of "within reason" wouldn't hurt though!

[quote="Luxon Cobrat"But just remember, the rounder the hole, the fewer square pegs can fit through. If this is the route we take, we'll have to accept the fact that some people are going to be excluded. We've always claimed that UV is open to everyone, but maybe it's not open to everyone.[/quote]
Those "other ones" tended to weed themselves out rather quickly when they realized they couldn't do what they wanted to do here...

. If there's going to be an Edge, I like the idea of there being a natural gathering place there. It does give people a reason to meet each other there.

I like the sound of it, but I'd like for it to evolve naturally through RP. Yes, this means that at first there won't be much, but touching back on the desire to create the world instead of just playing in one this doesn't eem to be a bad thing. Especially if we remove "The Edge" and just let joining RP take place wherever. As characters start creating and discovering new places the map will fill itself with spots for new characters to go to. I think.

Of course, we could just go completely libertine and let people do whatever they want, but I don't think Gaeva will agree to that in a million years. Just think of the chaos! Think of the children!

You're so funny! Million years is too short.

And here’s what’s going to stop the Attractions threads from becoming cluttered with every little idea every player has: whenever The Filter makes an appearance, I have to roleplay The Filter and the characters associated with it in that thread. Depending on how many characters want a cup of coffee, that could be a huge commitment on my part. And if I neglect The Filter and threads are brought to a screeching halt because of that negligence, then the shop should be removed from the Attractions thread so it doesn’t trip anyone else up.

I like the idea that it allows each area to die when needed, at the same time, I think the theory is better than the reality. Starting with the pressure this places on everybody who creates such an Attraction, how will they keep up when they are going through a busy RL period? This would make some people hesitant to go through with it, which you can argue would be a good thing as it allows only active people to go through with it, but I see no reason to create such a huge restriction on it.
Also, why couldn't people just go inside The Filter for fun and not converse with the owner(s)? Obviously if you're there for repairs then you need to talk to them, but if you're just walking around, possibly waiting while repairs are going on, why can't they be talking to someone else? I rarely go to a shop or food pace to talk to the sellers/waiters, heh.

...though as the site grows I can see that being very difficult to keep up with.

I would consider that a great problem to have.

I would prefer a similar way to what we have now, where such places have their own thread to interact with the owner of the place (who can place an "open" or "closed" sign on the thread), but have the place just be a general area anyone can go (in) to and encounters others as well. You'd still be required to keep your place active, but it'd be easier to keep track of when somebody is there (for you), and you can decide when to close such a thread because you know you're going to be too busy.

Or as Norv said...

I'm not so sure about the "PM every player" part, seems like if there were enough people on either side it could quickly become frustrating to both sender and receiver. Why not do something similar to Blackback's old shop where there was a single thread, perhaps stickied if it becomes officially recognized, where the shop's description is kept in first post and people can continue from there. The main thread would be like the shop during a busy time, where characters might bump into each other at the shop itself. You could also post something along the lines of "Shopkeeper attention requested, <link to thread>" if you wanted to minimize chaos in your visit.

And you can always pop into those other RPs as well, the ones outside of the "official" (for lack of a better word) thread, but without it being a requirement.

Though I agree with what Nightwolf said, if someone wants to take up the challenge, then you can do so, but without the rule that you "must" pop up every single time.

As an off-the-wall idea we might also consider getting permission for the space an in-character affair as well. This is just me thinking out loud so don't take it too seriously but perhaps there might be a number of characters or NPCs run by mods that act as 'zoning officers'.

Interesting, but not for mods necessarily, why not people who actually would like to do so?

If there get to be more than some arbitrary number of shops in an area, say three for sake of argument, they might all be unstickied and indexed into a single attractions thread like was mentioned. that way you still have the attractions available but not cluttering up the stickied area so much.

Nice.

The IC creation of these "attractions" could form plots all on their own, perhaps not in the "Forest-wide" nature of the past Barbannis gave us, but indeed a more "personal" form, where characters could form relationships, whether of a "business" nature or otherwise.

I like that very much and encourage it wholeheartedly for sure! Not sure about IC acceptance, though it can be unofficially done here and there, lol. The way I see it if you manage to create it, and people actually use it, it's in. If it's abandoned...well, then who would even remember to reject it as it'not even there.


I have to see I am loving the feedback and flow of ideas here ^_^ I'm sorry not everybody can get what they want, but I'm trying to figure out a happy medium, while trying to fix what flaws keep popping up here! You're all being very helpful creating the new UV ^_^ Thank you!

[forgerofsouls]

^ Long post is long. lol

But I will have one thing to say. Its about character limits. It was discussed earlier, and Viz at one point said that we should limit people to 10 characters. And I'd have to agree on that. And thats all I have.

[Roose Hurro]

Perhaps this idea of permanent "portals" for NPCs to "come out of" could be incorporated into Deep Forest's revampment.

I'm personally not that crazy about this idea. I get the fun part, and the possibilities this opens, but it seems so easy to explode into chaos and lose track of everything.

Hmmm... true, now that I think about it. But... heh... rather than a "permanent" portal, how about a "gyser" portal? You know, one that opens and "spews out" on a regular (or even irregular) cycle.

[

The IC creation of these "attractions" could form plots all on their own, perhaps not in the "Forest-wide" nature of the past Barbannis gave us, but indeed a more "personal" form, where characters could form relationships, whether of a "business" nature or otherwise.

[I like that very much and encourage it wholeheartedly for sure! Not sure about IC acceptance, though it can be unofficially done here and there, lol. The way I see it if you manage to create it, and people actually use it, it's in. If it's abandoned...well, then who would even remember to reject it as it'not even there.

Well, yes... use it or lose it. Perfect way to put it. Heh. Can't have a "business" without "customers"... right?

^ Long post is long. lol

But I will have one thing to say. Its about character limits. It was discussed earlier, and Viz at one point said that we should limit people to 10 characters. And I'd have to agree on that. And thats all I have.

This sounds reasonable, better than the present five character limit. Especially if it still allows people to cycle characters, by having old characters leave before new characters arrive. I know this has been discussed before, and we have the whole "Incident" with... well, let's just say, we've had people who haven't been happy with so few characters, and I know I almost didn't join this site because of said limits. So a bit of "expansion" might help in that reguard, while still providing a limit to potential character chaos.

Not to mention, we all (I hope) have ten fingers and ten toes, so "ten" sounds like a "natural" number. In other words, it's difficult to clap with only "one hand."

[Gaeva Winged Unicorn]

A geyser portal? That sounds exotic, lol! And more reasonable for sure.

Lol, Roose, I love your logic for having 10 as the cut off ^_^ I don't mind making it ten though. I said before I was going to make it "as much as you can handle", but maybe having a hard number gives people something more to work with. Also with maybe some lenience, like being allowed to have 1 in 5 characters not-so-active. Inspiration is a fickle thing after all.

[Toadie]

Just want to say I'm watching this develop with a strong interest. : )

[Gaeva Winged Unicorn]

Toadieeeeeeeee!!

...Wait. Does this watching involve evil cackling?

[forgerofsouls]

Yes, yes it does. Mwahahahahahaha!